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Back to the Luke heresy.

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Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Ryk » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:58 pm

Cartoons by Richard Gunther.
Sunday, November 8, 2009
Back to Doctor Luke

61 But they said to her, "There is no one among your relatives who is called by this name." 62 So they made signs to his father—what he would have him called. 63 And he asked for a writing tablet, and wrote, saying, "His name is John." So they all marveled. 64 Immediately his mouth was opened and his tongue loosed, and he spoke, praising God. 65 Then fear came on all who dwelt around them; and all these sayings were discussed throughout all the hill country of Judea.

If you remember, Zacharius refused to believe what God said to him through His angel. He therefore deemed God to be a liar. That is the insult of unbelief, and he was punished by God for his sin by being struck dumb. However, the moment he became obedient to God by naming his son John, God did a personal miracle for him. His mouth was opened and his tongue was loosed.

Disobedience comes naturally to all human beings--anyone who has kids can tell you that. We don’t have to teach our children to be selfish, to lie, to be greedy, or to be rebellious. We are born rebels. Yet, despite the multitude of sins that we each have, God will do a miracle for us the moment we obey Him. Speaking of Jesus, the Bible says "though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him..." (Hebrews 5:8-9).

Jesus is the "author" of eternal salvation. That means He grants everlasting life to anyone who obeys Him. Why should you obey Him? What has He done for you? He gave you eyes to see His incredible creation, ears to enjoy music and the sounds of the birds He created. He gave you the ability to love, to laugh, to sing, to think. He lavished His kindness upon you by giving you the gift of live itself. Have you thanked God for your life, and asked what He would have you do? The moment you obey the gospel you will no longer be dumb. God will open your mouth and you will speak of His kindness and praise Him for His goodness, much to the distain of a proud and rebellious world:

"I will bless the Lord at all times; His praise shall continually be in my mouth. My soul shall make its boast in the Lord; the humble shall hear of it and be glad" (Psalm 34:1-2).
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Ryk » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:01 pm

I seriously doubt my response will be published so here it is. I would like to engage Ray on his cultishness when he returns to preaching the Bible but he seems to censor everything like that.

Ray

Since the scripture claims that one must simply believe in Jesus in order to receive eternal life where is this talk about obeying him coming from. That sounds like a works based doctrine which is contrary to the words of your savior.

While it would be reasonable to suggest that those who believe would obey, it does not follow that one must obey or repent in order to believe. It seems you are reading things in to the book of Luke which run contrary to the words of Jesus Christ himself.

Even if the book of Luke does mean what you are claiming, that only means that Dr. Luke was teaching a doctrine contrary to the words of Christ who I would imagine is the actual authority according to your faith. Wasn't there a name given for those who claim things in the name of Jesus that he never said? I believe it was false prophet.

Now since I see the whole Gospel as just a silly collection of stories it doesn't affect me if you wish to distort it. However since you purport to believe in these stories one would think you would wish to be honest about what they actually say.
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Milo » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:07 am

Ray said:

If you remember, Zacharius refused to believe what God said to him through His angel. He therefore deemed God to be a liar. That is the insult of unbelief, and he was punished by God for his sin by being struck dumb. However, the moment he became obedient to God by naming his son John, God did a personal miracle for him. His mouth was opened and his tongue was loosed.


The actual verse says:

18 Zechariah asked the angel, "How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years."

19 The angel answered, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time."

Not that I have found the bible to make any sense, but Zacharias doubts the angel not God. And the angel says because you did not believe MY words you will be struck dumb. Sounds like the angel punished Zacharias not God. Mary expresses the same disbelief and she gets off scot free. Ray's interpretation that Zacharius refused to believe God seems overkill. The guy was just a little skeptical that's all. He didn't say "I don't believe you get the hell out of here", it was more "get out! really? are you sure? I'm an old man!" Anyway, asking reasonable questions is not calling God a liar.
Stop doubting and beleive Milo. Then everything will make sense.
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Happy Humanist » Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:30 am

Milo wrote:Ray said:

If you remember, Zacharius refused to believe what God said to him through His angel. He therefore deemed God to be a liar. That is the insult of unbelief, and he was punished by God for his sin by being struck dumb. However, the moment he became obedient to God by naming his son John, God did a personal miracle for him. His mouth was opened and his tongue was loosed.


The actual verse says:

18 Zechariah asked the angel, "How can I be sure of this? I am an old man and my wife is well along in years."

19 The angel answered, "I am Gabriel. I stand in the presence of God, and I have been sent to speak to you and to tell you this good news. 20 And now you will be silent and not able to speak until the day this happens, because you did not believe my words, which will come true at their proper time."

Not that I have found the bible to make any sense, but Zacharias doubts the angel not God. And the angel says because you did not believe MY words you will be struck dumb. Sounds like the angel punished Zacharias not God. Mary expresses the same disbelief and she gets off scot free. Ray's interpretation that Zacharius refused to believe God seems overkill. The guy was just a little skeptical that's all. He didn't say "I don't believe you get the hell out of here", it was more "get out! really? are you sure? I'm an old man!" Anyway, asking reasonable questions is not calling God a liar.


Bottom line--Do NOT question God's messengers (ie Ray Comfort) or you'll get zapped, if not now then in the afterlife.
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Ryk » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:38 am

Happy Humanist

I think you nailed it. I am pretty sure in Rays mind he is the angel of God and speaks directly to the almighty. I really think when atheists point out his idiocy and Christians point out his heresy he firmly believes that they are defying God not just Ray Comfort.
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Vagon » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:28 am

Ray wrote:Disobedience comes naturally to all human beings--anyone who has kids can tell you that. We don’t have to teach our children to be selfish, to lie, to be greedy, or to be rebellious. We are born rebels.


So thats why I beat my kids with a stick, and justify through the bible.

Ray wrote:To withhold the rod is to put your hand in the hand of Satan and co-operate with him in sending your child to hell!


I wonder whether Ray will admit to being wrong advocating corporal punishment? More likely he'd sweep it under the rug.
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Tilia » Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:01 pm

Can somebody explain to me why exactly this is a "Bible study"?

I can't see more than a very vague connection between the verses and Ray's ranting.
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Re: Back to the Luke heresy.

Postby Ryk » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:46 pm

Tilia wrote:Can somebody explain to me why exactly this is a "Bible study"?

I can't see more than a very vague connection between the verses and Ray's ranting.


Cuz iZ bout teh celin cat and da happycat and not teh Evilooshun what sez teh kitteh evolvs frum teh hoomans

Iz Y it called da biblestudy.
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