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quantum physics and logic

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quantum physics and logic

Postby kyonsenkoku » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:45 pm

I am curious is logic on a quantum level different then classical logic? because many fundies speciallt presupptionalists deny so
"Also, the law of non-contradiction is that A can’t be ~A is in the same sense and time. The wave-particle duality is a unified theory to explain why at the subatomic level matter can behave as both a wave and a particle. However, this cannot be observed simultaneously. I.e. it is always observed to be one or the other, but not both at the same time. Remember that the law of non-contradiction states that A cannot be not-A at the same time and sense." -Josef from Jason Lisle's site

so is it true is quantum logic different then classical logic?
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Re: quantum physics and logic

Postby E-lad » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:38 pm

It is different in that he distributive law of math is different.

a=(b and c) Classical
a=(b or c) Quantum

This is a highly simplified (and approaching my limit of understanding the difference.)
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Re: quantum physics and logic

Postby lehman scott » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:57 pm

kyonsenkoku wrote:I am curious is logic on a quantum level different then classical logic? because many fundies speciallt presupptionalists deny so
"Also, the law of non-contradiction is that A can’t be ~A is in the same sense and time. The wave-particle duality is a unified theory to explain why at the subatomic level matter can behave as both a wave and a particle. However, this cannot be observed simultaneously. I.e. it is always observed to be one or the other, but not both at the same time. Remember that the law of non-contradiction states that A cannot be not-A at the same time and sense." -Josef from Jason Lisle's site

so is it true is quantum logic different then classical logic?

Short answer, to the best of my knowledge, yes - - depending on what you include in the definition of "classical logic". From the earliest experiments in wave-particle duality, quantum physics has befuddled both physicists and logicians. One of the most enduring observations about QM (I forget who originally coined it, I think maybe Bohr) is that anyone who claims to understand it clearly doesn't. It defies "classical" logic and leaves open all sorts of interesting philosophical possibilities. You can read an excellent example of this in David Bohm's Wholeness and the Implicate Order. Do bear in mind, however, that I don't follow current developments in the field of logic, so there may have been some redefinitions of what is now considered classical vis-a-vis QM. I recall seeing some mention of efforts in that direction a few years back, but i don't recall where right now.

Long answer: Sorry, I don't have one, my half-dead cat Schrodinger just ate the best long tasty parts. ;)

But good luck exploring that topic, kyonsenkoku, I'm sure you'll find it fascinating! Let me know if you have any specific physics questions and I'll do my best to reply. Quantum superposition and action-at-a-distance is a favorite of mine. Really weird, the Universe can be...
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Re: quantum physics and logic

Postby zilch » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:06 pm

lehman- I believe it was Feynman and not Bohrs who said that stuff about understanding quantum physics. In any case, I don't see how logic can be affected by quantum physics. All quantum physics shows is that our concept of "is" must change, not our logic.
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Re: quantum physics and logic

Postby lehman scott » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:32 pm

zilch wrote:lehman- I believe it was Feynman and not Bohrs who said that stuff about understanding quantum physics. In any case, I don't see how logic can be affected by quantum physics. All quantum physics shows is that our concept of "is" must change, not our logic.


Hmmm... zilch, perhaps i'm in fact not knowledgeable enough in formal logic to have made those assertions, and it has been a while since i've read anything on the topic, but at the very least doesn't QM inherently violate that fundamental "Law of Non-Contradiction" that the presupps are always trying to use as a cudgel?
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Re: quantum physics and logic

Postby zilch » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:56 pm

lehman- I'm not at all knowledgeable about current thinking about logic. I don't see, though, how QM changes the Law of Non-Contradiction. It changes what "is" means in "A is B" and "A is not B", but it doesn't change, as far as I can see, that the two statements are mutually exclusive. Does that make sense?
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