MaxFF wrote: I tend to see different moral codes across societies in different parts of the world and across history, so I reject both and suggest that morality is a societal agreement.
You're implying that people do not have consciences. In other words, consciences are arbitrary and subjective. That is not based on reality if that is indeed the case. Reality says different. Take lying as an example.
ALL people, across all genders and races show signs of the consequences / telltales of when a person lies, like; They experience sweaty palms; They experience induced swallowing; Their heart rate increases; Their faces turn red; They avoid eye contact; compression of pupils; They speak more quickly, etc. etc. This is with everyone human being on the planet. (Except of course for sociopaths and those who have perfected deception)
O.K., ... so these are physical reactions (that cross all humanity), that occur when people lie, keeping in mind that none of them are at all based upon comfort, self esteem, or integrity, why is that?
Here's a hint, lying is a spiritual event. It's not merely a physical action. Lying is an offense against God. When His creation lies, He is ashamed of His creation and simply separates Himself. Therefore He has constructed us with built in sensors that perhaps we just might someday, in our blind little, self seeking minds, finally get the big picture.
MaxFF wrote: They all follow the laws of logic so any differences between languages are simply ignored I guess.
They should be ignored. Fallacies, like this irrelevant thesis, should be. BTW-There can be no logical fallacies absent an absolute standard of logic, which you simply cannot account for without God. If logic is merely a characteristic of nature, can the laws of logic change, since nature is constantly changing? The point still stands. No matter what universe, the universal laws of logic are sound and absolute no matter what alien life form is communicating. Hopefully you will stop resisting that one point and realize that God does indeed exist and His absolute nature and character is revealed in our world. As logic is a reflection of the very absolute character and nature of God.
Sye said once," the existence of logic is intuitively grasped by anyone whose cognitive faculties are functioning properly; what the presuppositionalism of Reformed theology and Van Til et al. does is expose the necessary preconditions thereof, providing an account of the nature and intelligibility of logic, the fundamental principles of which express analogously the curious fact that reality is non contra se. (1) As a divine attribute (original), logic is coterminous with the nature and character of God, understood in terms of divine necessity and simplicity and constituting the coherence and consistency of his nature and unchanging character; as such, logical order is manifest everywhere that the sovereign and sustaining power of God is, which is everywhere. (2) As a human attribute (derivative), given our nature as imago Dei, logic is contingent insofar as we are creatures whose existence is distinct from and sustained by God; at this level, logic is understood analogously as conceptual formulations expressing the logical order of creation and the self-consistent coherence of God's immutable being. The fact that logical principles (e.g., the law of contradiction) are necessarily true, absolute, and universal is accounted for by their analogical relationship to the divine attribute of logic that is coterminous with the very nature and character of the covenant God of promise."